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Graham Pardun's avatar

Brilliant, David. Ellul speaks a lot in his "Subversion of Christianity" how intolerable true freedom in Messiah is! Also, at what point did we start translating Torah as "law"? Torah means "teaching" and is related to the word for rain, because drip by steady drip, Torah reshapes us, like water reshapes clay.

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

Yeah, Walter Benjamin says this in so many words, and Martin Buber also, as VanessaChemberlin showed me.

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Emily Ambrose's avatar

I’ve been questioning this as well (though far less eloquently). In my own heart, I can no longer abide any system which instructs where God is NOT. Obviously this needs some more work but I’m finding that any institution suggesting restrictions to the divine presence or othering people as exempt from it is operating from fear instead of love. I seek the lawlessness of what it would mean to be truly open.

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

Beautifully put. Reminds me of the saying "every time we draw a line, the Messiah is on the other side of it."

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Jack Barron's avatar

I am not quite sure why this knocks my socks off, but it does. It all seems so simply put, so matter of fact. And there you are: the narrow path just opening. It recalls 2 things that flutter through my head reasonably often. The light thought, Mr. Dylan singing "to live outside the law, you must be honest..." The heavy one is Ursula K. Le Guin's "The Ones Who Walk from Omelas."

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

I've never read this Le Guin story, but have read about it! I guess it puts that Dylan quote the other way around: "to be honest, you must live outside the law.."

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Jack Barron's avatar

That's it! A tangent that is not a tangent and maybe too personal: a line from "Kindness is Solid Stone" has been stuck in my head this week- "and this here is a shell of the real thing" because I walk around and feel as if everything we've made is unreal and even the trails, well-trod, into our hills here feel hidden from the source. Not unreal in some kind of Maya-all-is-illusion kind of way but in your sense here that law is unreal- "a shell of the real thing...a hell as we built it." Somewhere in here I sense the possibilities of what I think you mean by the Messianic.

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

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Michelle Berry Lane's avatar

Seems like a shift within, rather than a shift from without, is the thing

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

Yes, I think it's "the renewing of the mind" of Romans 12.

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Lydia Catterall's avatar

That last paragraph💥 Full of thoughts. Thank you.

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

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Lantern Light Workshop's avatar

John Calvin is one of the biggest devils in my imaginary. One of the angels he murdered is a hero of mine, Michael Servetus.

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Graham Pardun's avatar

I grew up Calvinist. It's been awhile, but the wounds are still there. TULIP is a blasphemy against the flowers God made and loves. I feel your pain!

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David Benjamin Blower's avatar

I found myself reading about the execution of Michael Servetus for the first time while writing this. What callous brutality. M.S. sounds a fascinating figure. I'd love to know how you came to him?

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Lantern Light Workshop's avatar

He was a Spanish mystic, theologian, polymath. A very open minded man who was always credited later as being one of the shapers of Unitarianism, the church of my family and my youth. Very much at the heart of the reformation. He was a kind of trickster, a flipper, although very sincere. The name means reversal. At least in my imagination. Worth reading, if you're of a mind to. There is a society dedicated to him which is on-line.

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